I dont think were blessed at all. Compared to other PC Genres its a shame how little the Race Sim Genre has moved forward in the last years or the last century for that matter, GPL is still considered by most as among the best Race Sims today, it is nearly 10 years old.

What good stuff has come out since then? NASCAR Racing 2003, and LFS are only worth mentioning.
The other Sim netkarPro isnt really a finished Program and all those fancy cars and tracks are worth nothing when they are based on the ISI Physic Engine.

Compared to Shooter Games, or Flight Simulations the progress of Racing Simulations in the last couple of years is a disgrace. The lack of Products in the Sim Genre is because there are just too few people interested in Simulation Racing. A Arcade Racer Game sells more than any Sim.

And because the opening Thread mentioned how real drivers comment on Sims, forget about it, the opinion about a Sim from most real life Racers are not worth much, because they dont know anything about a Sim, they dont know what can be Simulated, what has been Simulated, most of them dont know anything about it. Its like if I would jump into the Ferraris new 2007 F1 car, make a few laps and then tell them if it is any good or not. I just couldnt compare it to last years car.

I have met Alexander Wurz some years ago and asked him what he believed was the most realistic F1 Simulation, he said "the best Simulation is F1 World Grand Prix", F1 World Grand Prix is a frigging Nintendo 64 Game ! But because he had nothing to compare it to he seriously thought a Nintendo 64 Game was the best Simulation available. So dont take it to seriously if any real driver states his opinion about a Sim, most of them have simply no idea what Sims are on the Market.

But there are some real Racers who do Sim Racing, like Montoya and Villeneuve who have said several times that they do Simulation Racing, they both like GPL, Dale Earnhardt Junior is a NASCAR Racing 2003 driver, he does even Race Online regularly, he has his own NR03 Homepage with Setups and such. So there are some real life Racers who have a clue about Sims, but most of them just dont know about whats there. Here is a nice Video about real Racer doing Sim Racing by the way.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:10.

There should be Action taken against him, Devs just lose working time that they could have spent on the Sim without this kind of crap.

I'm going to PN him dawesdust!

Quote from thisnameistaken :

George, what resolution do you run (isn't the max. vertical resolution 1024 on the TH2G?)? And what sort of frame rates do you get at race starts? That's not exactly a high-spec machine you're using - is it enough?

No, I would recommend a faster Grafic card than I have at the moment. I run all Sims at 3840x1024, in LFS I run 2xAA and 4XAF when I'm riding alone, getting 40 FPS.

But in Multiplayer Races I switch AA and AF to 0. Because the Frame Rate at the Start with 10 cars infront of me drop to 22-26, after some corners I'm back above 35.
So the 7600GS is quite okay but not great for running three 22" screens in LFS, I dont know how the 7600GS performs on three 19inch screens but everything as fast as the 7600GT or faster should be fine, I'm waiting for the 8800GTS prices to come down.

Quote from XCNuse :

thumbs down to the french once again i must say

Why do the Yanks always have a go at the French?

Quote from Woz :

Only issue here is motor speed as the G25 is so much faster than the DFP. (I owned a DFP since launch and G25 since launch). So unless the frex kit upgrades the internals get the G25.

It still makes me smile driving with it months after I originally got the wheel. Fast, solid and smooth.

Yes the DFP is slower and the FREX Kit does not upgrade the internals. By the way if your good in crafting skills you can also mount a real life Steering Wheel on the G25 without a Adapter like this guy did:

Another Option would be to get the DFP Wheel for € 50

+ the FREX Wheel Kit for € 220

+ a real life Racing Steering Wheel for € 150

Than you have the quality of the DFP wheel and a real life Steering Wheel in you Hands.

And if you have alot of money, how about the VPP FF Wheel for € 1400

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:56.

Quote from Fischfix :

what do i need to have 3 monitors on one computer? 3 grafic cards?

Despite other methods discussed here you can use one Graphic Card with the TripleHead2Go Adapter, it costs € 250, than you want three 19" LCD Monitor like for €200 each or three 22inch Monitors for €300 each. I use one Grafic Card (GeForce 7600 GS), 2GB Memory and one single core AMD 3200+@2,45 Ghz.

Quote from Shotglass :

all of which is not true for sim racing where you will look to the sidemonitors a lot to see your opponents

It depends, I look at the side monitors occasionally when something turns up at the side, but 99% of the time I only focus on the center screen. You dont turn your head and look out of the side window in your real car, unless there is something special going on like a car appearing next to you and you want to see the distance, but other than that, you always look straight ahead and enjoy the immersion and FOV. TrackIR is also recommended, than you can easily look into the corner before turning.

I've got to make a good post once in a while

Nicely written, liked it.

1) The Physic Engine, explained good the sensation and enjoyment of driving it. What would be nice is if the Physic Engine is explained a bit more. So why is it good? What does it. What parts of the car are simulated? The tyre flex could be mentioned, how it affects the handling and its visibility. What does the Physic Engine accomplish and how will it be improved in the future?

2) Fictional Cars/Tracks is a downer of LFS I and many others would say. The second reason why you should play LFS got to be the Online Racing. The sensation and experience of Racing against other real People is working smoothly and with features unmatched by any other Sim.
Automatical download of other cars skins, Live Results for all Online Races and all drivers statistics documented forever at LFSWorld, the easy access and reliability of Racing Online in LFS is Top.

3) About the Community part, think it sounds to apologising, the community is helpful and friendly overall, the big plus here is that you can have contact in this community with the Developers of the Sim, with people who can help you with any Sim problem you can think of in a short time. The great things about the community is that you first off have a real big community from people all over the World, and have the Developers in the community who listens and communicate.

Like all following points you made and it is nicely written. Although I think you should change the order. 10 reasons why you should play LFS?

1. Physics
2. Multiplayer Mode
3. Graphics (the realistic appearance top the cartoon colors of many other Sims for alot of people)
4. Community
5. Variety of cars
6. Workings and Infos of the Sound
7. The Leagues
8. Low System Requirements
9. The fast and good User Interface + the amount of tweaking Options
10. Constant Development and improvement of the Product.

The last point could describe where LFS comes from and what the Goal is of the Developer, all previous mentioned 9 points could be mentioned again, focusing on what is planned to implement until the final Version.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:57.

Quote from tristancliffe :

No, this was a myth put around in the 40s and 50s by lamp manufacturers. Apparently there is no evidence to support this claim, but it's so widely 'known' that it's considered fact by people that should know better

I experience very tired eyes when playing in the dark for a long time, there are also some examples of enthusiastic Flight Simmers who cannot get past real Flight Medical Tests due to damaged eyes after years of starring at the Screen. When the screen(s) are the only lightsource in the room it is stressful for the eyes, maybe not for everyone but for some people it is.

Quote from MagicFr :

also, when you'r concentring on screens, brain tend to ""erase"" useless information, equal you can use larger fov.This is more obvious when playing in dark condition

Playing regularly in a dark Room will damage your eyes in the long Run.

Quote from Viper93 :

:feedtroll :doh: :talktohan

lol that directed at me? And your point is?

Quote from shrapnel :

Sounds like rFactor to me, the demo or even the base full product is so far behind what has been done with some of the mods out there.

No, Flight Simulator Add Ons are totally different then what we get in Racing Games like rFactor. Flight Simulator Add Ons cost far more than the base Flight Sim Product and due to there quality are used in Professionell Training. Mods for rFactor are just rehashes of the poor ISI Engine. Dont try to compare Racing Game Add-Ons with Flight Sim Payware Add-ons, there is such a big Gap between them that if you find out more about it you will be disapointed how far the Flight Sim Community has moved forward in the last years compared to the Racing Genre.

Quote from Dajmin :

There are already a zillion "ZOMG RF t3h sux" threads out there, do we really need another?

Some people like one product, some like another. Some like both. Some like neither. Live with it.

Ah get over it, somebody mentioned two Programs in the same sentence, if you cant handle that skip those Posts

Quote from Shotglass :

i fail to see any disagreement with tristan in your post

The disagreement is that with FSX or FS9 you can have a decent Simulator, even with a X-Plane level of quality. You need Payware Planes and other Add-Ons to raise the Game into a serious Simulation. But it is very possible with all those Quality Plane Products for MSFS.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I don't play MS Flight Sim because it's just too cheesy and unreal, but is vastly more accesible. Being the sim-nerd I am I HAVE to go with X-Plane because it doesn't stoop to the low standards of MS. Is it more playable, more accesible or popular? No, and that's also something in it's favour.

LFS is the X-Plane of sim racing. Racer and nK are also in this catagory but either haven't been developed enough (racer) or haven't matured and sorted themselves out to be a true player (nK).
rFactor, GTR, GTL etc are the MSFS of sim racing. Accessible, lower learning curves, fancier 'BUY ME' graphics and sound, more modable, but (for me, and I must stress that anyone who reads this post takes note that this is all just how I see it in my world with my experiences and expectations) they lack depth of character. The soft option as it were. Closer to the drunken arcade blasts at 3am I alluded to in another thread the other day than to a hardcore simulation of what I think a modern simulation could be.

I'm into Flight Simulations and I strongly disagree. With just a few Payware Add Ons you can have a real Simulation in Microsofts Flight Simulator. If you leave all at the default, well yes than its just another Game, and not a X-Plane.

I have 17 years experience in Racing Sims, have raced in real Race Cars. GTL, Race, GTR2, rFactor these are nice Games and if you want the "Microsoft Flight Simulator" of the Racing Games, you cant beef it up into a "X-Plane" style Simulations because the Physics of the Mods for example for rFactor, are mostly a guess from Computer Geeks who have never actually Raced anything, and are further limited in there work because of ISI's crappy basic Engine.
All I have seen for rfactor so far is the same old, converting of other old stuff by noobs that have no idea what they are doing, its really awful. The "X-Plane" type of Simulations in our Genre are NASCAR Racing 2003, netkarPro, GPL, Live for Speed and Richard Burns Rally.

I use 120 on three Screens

Grabbed them thanks!

This BF1 Slowmotion Video made by Don is so awesome Just want to give credit for this beautiful Video and perhaps some people didnt saw it. It seems so simply but it captures the enjoyment when driving so good. Youtube Link Watch it in full screen mode.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:04.

Quote from Racer Y :

Would it really bother you that much if your interior was modeled like that of a real race car, yet mine was to have a red leather dash board, chrome trim and a little dog who's head bobbles? It's not like it would make me go faster...

Oh come on, Road Car interiors in a Race Car, how awkward is that? No thanks, I think 99% of NR03 Drivers would disagree with you. Even the LFS guys are working of getting rid of the Road Car interiors in the GTR cars, its just awkward as it is, and thats why they have to be changed to recreate the real look

Quote from Racer Y :

BTW, I haver never raced in a real race car, but I have done graphics for them and applied them to the real car... If you ask me, the average race car interior could stand some improvements.
LOL a 500 mile race in an interior like that? LOL like being in jail or something.
And those seats! Have you ever sat in one? LOL a friend of mine had a car that was missing the passenger seat, you had to sit on a milk crate. That milk crate was more comfortable.

Yes I have seat and raced in a real Race car, I think the Race car seats are very comfortable. They are very tight, and the seatbelts strap you to the seat very strongly. You feel like you cannot move any cm to any direction, but it feels good somehow.
Thats why I also do Sim Racing in a real SPARCO Seat, just feels far better than a Office chair.

Quote from Racer Y :

Actually, the interiors of Nascar are really done very good. too good. I don't know what any of that is so I just ignore it. But it's not like I have time to pay attention anyways flying thru the 'ring in a Plymouth Superbird

When your in a NR03 league Race, and there are very realistic NR03 leagues, like ESCORS, by the way also check out there Virtual Money System, where you sign contracts, earn money and loose money if you damage your car for example, when you Race in such a league you usually have long Races, so you have to always check out whats going on with the car, the wind and the temperature, the tires, in NASCAR everything changes constantly, so you always keep an eye on the Gauges, in my last Daytona Race I had huge Problems with the Water Temperature and Oil Pressure, as soon as the Water reached a critical Temperature I avoided driving closely behind the car infront and took some fresh air for the engine so it cooled down a bit, otherwise the engine would have overheated as even the warning lights went on. So if you dont watch the Gauges in long Races, you have no chance. They are very important in serious League Racing. If you wouldnt have a water Temp Gauge you couldnt decide how much Tape you put on the Grill at all.

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Sun, 4 Feb 2007 10:17.

Quote from Racer Y :

The race guages in Nascar 2K3 just confuses the hell out of me. I'd rather have something I can identify with instead. (maybe have optional interiors in future versions?)

NR03 is a Simulator mate, with things like Hardcore Mode, Forced Cockpit View Options and the like, thanks God it does not have fancy looking interiorers or a bunch of Display Options just to fancy the Gamers. A Stockcar is Simulated and thats how it looks.

Despite its age, I like the realistic colours in LFS way more than the cartoon colours and looks of the ISI Sims for example. LFS Graphics are very clean, smooth and I rate it among the very best in the Genre with NR03 and netkarPro.
But the cockpits in LFS need a overhaul soon, at the moment the tracks look so much better than the cockpits, but I heard they are working on that.

ISI stuff is whats really getting old, slightly updating there same old Physic Engine from 10 years ago, and then rfactor, it's just awful.
NR03, LFS, GPL, Richard Burns Rally, and netkarPro are the best stuff in our Sim Genre IMHO.

What you would want is a three monitor setup and a FREX Simconmotion

Users love it, it costs 1500 Euros by the way

Quote from peejayh :

George, how far do you find you have to sit for your three "22 inch" monitors to be comfortable? I'm very keen on the Triple Head 2Go for flight sim use but I've heard that its also good for LFS and Grand Prix Legends, My THREE Favourite progs!!

About the distance it depends, usually I put the screens very close when doing Race Sims, the sense of Speed and immersion is important. LFS looks very good, while Grand Prix Legends has unremoveable black borders on the top and bottom of the screen. That makes the picture quite wide, but thats not the case in LFS.

When I do some flyieng, I tend to change the placements of the screens so I see all switches and buttons in the Cockpit more easily. Here are some views with GPL and Flight Simulator.

Flight Simulator X



http://img173.imagevenue.com/l ... Simulator_X_122_318lo.JPG

Grand Prix Legends



http://img37.imagevenue.com/lo ... _1920_x_480_122_526lo.JPG

NR03

Last edited by George Kuyumji, Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:40.